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Post by zeppelin101 on Oct 10, 2006 11:14:00 GMT -5
If you do anything in rF, make it tintop. I disagree about F1's handling. While it may not be brilliant, anything is better than GP4's 30 options of uber grippiness imo. Try driving anything in rF, and then go straight onto GP4, or vice versa, you just cant do it, the two are polar opposites. Besides, we're talking some 4 years of development as well, they're not really up for comparison. For me, in rF it's tintops or something like F3. Tintops are easy to control once you learn a few basics about driving them. Unfortunately, GP4 is slowly killing itself, with the mindless leaching etc, people are leaving it for games like GTR2 and rF every day. When RACE comes out, more will leave, and although the guys behing iRacing are a set of bastards, more people will probably switch to that too in the end. It's sad in a way, but there is much better material on the market, which is far more open to modelling. rF is designed for it, GTR2 uses the same structure as GTR, so stuff can be carted over no trouble. RACE is a Simbin product, so will probably be the same as GTR in terms of modding. Since I'm already out of this league, with OW driving me stark raving mad, it doesn't matter what I think, but I thought I'd give you my opinion on rF, since I've played it for quite some time, and am learning more about it as days go by. btw, for those of you put off by modding in rF, the structure is being improved so far as I know to make it even easier, and the tools are constantly being developed as well Oh and I'm also slightly pissed off that no one tested my V12 physics and .exe, but hey, I aint here so it aint my problem
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Post by Senna on Oct 10, 2006 11:19:37 GMT -5
Oh and I'm also slightly pissed off that no one tested my V12 physics and .exe, but hey, I aint here so it aint my problem I said that I was going to test it after the season finale, I swear!
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Post by Viper on Oct 10, 2006 11:32:20 GMT -5
I tested it. I felt the physics was a bit over the top with the acceleration. I still like the v10 better...
Again, the two problems I have with rFactor is: It's online and it's hard to mod. It's already hard to get you guys to do 6-12 laps a week offline, just imagine having to set a specific time for everyone to be online to do the laps. And the modding part, while doing skins is easy, there's zero documentation on how to get a mod going from the ground up. I tried a few weeks ago to put a single car with it's own physics, and I just couldn't get it to work. The current mod teams probably had far more time to test and learn, and so are able to do their stuff.
Gp4 might be a dated engine, but it's very easy to mod and the tools are very well made already. There were some things this year that happened that I won't let happen next year as well. I decided to go over some of the rules and you'll be seeing a new draft in a couple of days.
Also, I won't participate/admin anything that isn't close to F1. Just not interested. Tin Tops are interesting for a couple of races, but I can't see myself doing a whole season out of it...too boring TBH.
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Post by zeppelin101 on Oct 10, 2006 13:31:38 GMT -5
I dont think you've ever raced anyone online live have you? I should think you'd change your mind pretty damn quick after trading paint with a few people GP4 is NOT easy to mod. Tracks are NOT easy to make, and lest you forget, it took GP4's d00ds a long time to crack the system. Crammond hated modders. It's only easi er to mod now cos its been around such a long time
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Post by Viper on Oct 10, 2006 15:04:10 GMT -5
Doesn't matter if it was hard or not, it's not anymore today and that's what matters ATM.
What does playing online has to do with liking Tin Tops though?
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Post by zeppelin101 on Oct 10, 2006 16:32:53 GMT -5
Just cruising around a track on your own, or with AI is just not the same. Human drivers are far more unpredictable, especially in a close race. With AI, you can see how far away they are and say "yeah, they're gonna make a move" with a human driver, they could be some 150m behind you and still try and pull the same move off, and the fact is, that a tintop is miles more fun to drive with a touch of oversteer. In F1 your setup has to be damn good to get a good time, with a tintop, you just have to be able to drive your arse off, even if you're setup isnt all that hot. Trust me, I was in the Zondas yesterday with a few people, and we all started with different setups, and its great watching how different people take the corners and control the car, AI dont do that. One line, *yawn* predictability. Human racer, different lines, different speeds, different type of control, different type of racing. Online, F1 sucks. When it first came about, there were millions of F1 servers. They've all disappeared in favour of Porcshe's, V8 supercars, and other high powered tintops cos the racing is so much closer and so much more fun. I think you're afraid of them because you dont know how to approach them because driving an F1 car is EASY compared to bashing out hotlap after hotlap in a tintop with no TC, and 650bhp beneath your foot I maintain that GP4 is not easy to mod. GP2 was easy to mod, GP3 was easy to mod. GP4 is not. The community is getting worse and worse, and hence more people are leaving for other games. I havent seen you churn out any tracks yet, and you yourself said it wasnt easy. That's modding. Nothing is easy about track editing. It's the most frustrating thing about the game. Do NOT tell me that modding GP4 is easy. Glueing a few cars together into a carset is a walk in the park compared to making a high quality track, or car with the amount of annoying bastards complaining that your winglet is in the wrong bloody place
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Post by Senna on Oct 10, 2006 17:45:55 GMT -5
I had some rF races online with zep and although I had driveability problems (nothing that the time can sort out with a good wheel config and/or a new steering wheel) I had a race at dijon-prenois with zep and I had a lot of fun. Yeah we had different racing lines in some points because we have different driving styles and we were racing with the McLaren F1 Challenge cars!
To sum up, I agree with zep, BUT I still prefer the F1 mods, just because F1 is the pinnacle of the motorsport and I love it. I also loved the tintops, but my preference is F1.
About GP4 modding I wont say anything except that the only GP4 modding thing I have ever done was painting cars and fixing some front/rear wings. I once tried to do a track but at the first step I gave up because of the difficulty and because I dont have enough time for it. Yeah, modding GP4 isnt easy.
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Post by Senna on Oct 10, 2006 17:47:36 GMT -5
and zep, i'm finished with my work today and I am going back 2 home now (20-30 minutes), so we can have a msn chat again later
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2006 18:26:00 GMT -5
ok, just to prove tin tops are the most competitive here is the final lap of a race between me and a good mate from the f1vwc.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwIFLC1WTs8 , the race was 20 laps long and it came down to this, as you can see from the final lap, look how different our lines and driving styles are, whatever you do with tin tops will not lose you any time, unlike f1 you stand the most chance of overtaking by taking the weirdest lines. Edit: Ignore the shitty music
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Post by Viper on Oct 10, 2006 18:47:06 GMT -5
Just cruising around a track on your own, or with AI is just not the same. Human drivers are far more unpredictable, especially in a close race. With AI, you can see how far away they are and say "yeah, they're gonna make a move" with a human driver, they could be some 150m behind you and still try and pull the same move off, and the fact is, that a tintop is miles more fun to drive with a touch of oversteer. In F1 your setup has to be damn good to get a good time, with a tintop, you just have to be able to drive your arse off, even if you're setup isnt all that hot. Trust me, I was in the Zondas yesterday with a few people, and we all started with different setups, and its great watching how different people take the corners and control the car, AI dont do that. One line, *yawn* predictability. Human racer, different lines, different speeds, different type of control, different type of racing. I've driven Gp4 via lan, and yes it's much better. Not going to argue with you there. I wish gp4 had online play. But I like the fact that your setup has to be great to get a good time with an F1 mod...that's half the challenge IMO. Well, that's a problem of the mod that was done and nothing to do with F1 itself. But the latest update to the F1 2005 mod should fix that, as now online play will be done with everyone using the same physics. Pfft, the thought didn't even cross my mind, but of course I find it hard to do that...I only have a KEYBOARD to drive them. Give me a wheel and I'll do it without problems. Anyway, I'm not a fan of stock car competition. All races that I watch are very boring...equal cars is boring. I find no thrill in having to watch a race where the gaps are like 0. 3 seconds the entire race, and you have to wait for the driver in front of you to screw up to pass him, or if it happens that someone is faster they shave off 0.02 seconds each lap until they are able to attempt a pass. And driving like that is equally boring as well. On the modding aspect, I'm not talking about track modding. That's is hard indeed. And the community of Gp4 modding is getting worse cause a few people have got their horses so high up their asses that they don't see it's just a hobby, and shouldn't get worked up when they see their work being passed on by someone else or get so nervous when someone asks when it's being released or get some critic. For years, I modelled starships from scifi shows, and that's the most annoying comunity in existence when it comes to details...you just learn to ignore them and you keep working on your own stuff. But obviously, the game people can never do that cause they think they are doing everyone else a favor. Honestly, the day that gp4 modding community stops dead, I'll just sit down and update the seasons myself if no F1 game comes to replace it. I know how to do it, but I just don't, cause there's no need to.
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Post by Viper on Oct 10, 2006 19:02:15 GMT -5
ok, just to prove tin tops are the most competitive here is the final lap of a race between me and a good mate from the f1vwc.. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwIFLC1WTs8 , the race was 20 laps long and it came down to this, as you can see from the final lap, look how different our lines and driving styles are, whatever you do with tin tops will not lose you any time, unlike f1 you stand the most chance of overtaking by taking the weirdest lines. You're kidding right? You messed up one of the corners going trough the grass, heh. Of course he was going to catch you And rFactor really needs a better damage engine...he shoudn't have been able to finish the race there.
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Post by Dave on Oct 10, 2006 19:16:56 GMT -5
the fact that i made a mistake was not what i intended, i meant to show that after 20 laps he was still close enough to capitalise on a small mistake that lost me 10mph max, the reason the damage sucked was because we didnt have it on we dont do daily races with damage on for the small reason that we want to finish the race and actually enjoy the race instead of driving with damaged suspension or the like. When you get a wheel come and join Tom, Bruno and I and we'll see how much your opinion changes AFAIK Each mod has a different damage engine, the skodas for example, touch a wall at all and you see the suspension laying on the track in front of you...
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Post by Viper on Oct 10, 2006 19:37:22 GMT -5
Well, that could've happened in a F1 race as well...don't really see the difference. And gotcha on the damage thing.
I don't think I'll be buying a wheel anytime soon anymore...the freelance job I was doing is on halt, so I gotta wait and see what happens with it...
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Post by zeppelin101 on Oct 11, 2006 6:40:11 GMT -5
w00t rf does actually have vertex deformation, its just not perfect yet.
Besides, F1 is getting to the stage where you have to have the guy in front make a mistake in order to make the pass *cough* ms / alonso suzuka? *cough*. I'm watching Bathurst in V8 supercars, and those guys are just banging out lap after lap, and there have been no mistakes by the leading two and the gap is opening and closing all the time, and its awesome seeing these big 1400kg cars drop through the gears from 300kmh to just 100 in the space of 200m for the chase, especially if one of them is late on the brakes
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Post by Viper on Oct 11, 2006 10:10:08 GMT -5
Alonso was nowhere near Schumacher though...he was like 8 seconds behind
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